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[Tranz]

I guess you're young, too and don't consider that a person's time is a finite thing that is as valuable as money.

Look, since you act as if you have so much free time and are willing to do things for free, why don't you take on this project: http://forum.coppermine-gallery.net/index.php?topic=21538.0

[Joachim Müller]

@Aven: stop this silly discussion and spoiling this thread - you posted on the "paid help" sub-board. You could have requested free support as well on the regular support board. If you don't care to read the board description you're posting in, then it's you who is to blame.

[artistsinhawaii]

I sit here reading all the free support board messages here and I'm always impressed at the depth of knowledge and know-how that is shared here.  I've installed Coppermine on my server and although I'm still working on it, I feel obliged to return something for such an excellent product that has been made 'free' to me.

That someone would want to charge a small fee for installing or troubleshooting a Coppermine setup, I do not find offensive or an outrageous notion.  I think it's a welcome proposition that might help lighten the load of some of the devs.  If it is one of the devs themself who is offering a hand, cudos! They should be given as much opportunity to capitalize on the hard work and industry they have already invested in developing this outstanding product.  

How someone makes their money or spends their money is their own perogative, as long as what they are doing is legal.  

As for $40? That's about half of the retail price of one 8 oz bottle of the skin lotion I manufacture at a cost of $2.22 to me.   Sounds like a rip-off?  You wouldn't think so if you spent ten years of your life and every penny you could scrounge researching and developing it.    

Expertise and experience doesn't come cheap.  It takes time, effort, energy, and often money.  

Quite often it also entails an unwritten guarantee of sorts that can turn a $40 install into a $0.10 per hour ordeal or less.  I shudder to think of the emails that these "installers" might get from a less knowledgeable computer user long after the install.  "Hey, is it okay if I do this .. or that.. or...ooops.   Can you hear me now?"

As to whom I would choose to do my install if I needed that kind of help?  I certainly would choose the one that had 5000 posts.   That's less than a penny a post.  My kind of value for expertise and experience.

Dennis





 

[Aven]

Tell me one reason why would you want someone to install Copp for you. You never learn anything when you pay... how are you going to learn if you're going to make people do the work for you?

And on top of that, the person charges $25...

Someone on this thread said "I'd rather pay $25 to install  a COP for me rather than messing up my site"

There isn't anything you can really mess up. Mabye with the COP, sure but you can always delete the files and start over. It doesn't mess up your "site".

And what does being young have to do with this? You're not backing up your statements... Take the time and start doing that.

GauGau: This thread has been already spoiled... ever since it started ($25 *rolls eyes)

And why is it pinned anyway?

[Casper]

God what a plonker you are.

Every reply on this thread to your original post has given reasons, and requests for you to leave it out.
But you just won't learn will you.
Well I've had enough of your babble.  I've spent almost 1000 hours total on this site, and made over 5000 posts, and never expected or asked for a penny when people ask for advice here. 

I, like all the helpers here, try to help others to do it themselves first.

But why should I be expected to go to their own server, and do jobs for them for nothing.  We have made it very easy to install coppermine, and when people have problems, we give free advice here, but that's where the free stops.

While I'm doing those jobs on their site, that they cannot do themselves for whatever reason, I cannot be here helping others.

What is different about the internet, that skilled workers should do their job for nothing.  You don't get that anywhere else.  Can you get a mechanic to come to your home and fit a new bit to your car for nothing.  No.
Can you get a plumber to come and fix your leaking pipes for nowt.  Not on your life.

So why the hell should I be expected to go to your webspace and do work for you for nothing.
And as has also been said, that $25 buys a whole lot more than the simple install.   It buys many hours of support, and explaining, and, in my case at least, help with theming and getting it to be exactly what you want.

As has already been suggested here before, where is your offer to do anything here yourself, and give your time for free.

[Aven]

God what a plonker you are.
But why should I be expected to go to their own server, and do jobs for them for nothing.  We have made it very easy to install coppermine, and when people have problems, we give free advice here, but that's where the free stops.

It obviously looks like this thread has fell flat because even on a PINNED topic, no one even contributed. You can't trick others that easily.

What is different about the internet, that skilled workers should do their job for nothing.

But it's not something hard at all. Why not be friendly on something that you can easily do and doesn't take as long at all.

So why the hell should I be expected to go to your webspace and do work for you for nothing.

The guy doesn't even know anyone around here. He's a STRANGER and is already asking for $25 to install a COP template. Talk about bad impressions.

$25 buys a whole lot more than the simple install.   It buys many hours of support, and explaining, and, in my case at least, help with theming and getting it to be exactly what you want.

How so? the person is going to install it for them... If he can give instructions, why not give them now? Oh wait, he's on a $$$cash$$$$ journey.

[kegobeer]

Aven,

Perhaps you don't understand how open source works.  Open source is actually designed to allow people to make money!  Software is free, but money can be made from support given for that product.  For example, Coppermine is completely free and comes with detailed instructions for how to install and maintain the software.  However, I can offer my services to install and maintain that product.  If someone takes me up on that offer, and we agree upon a price, then I do my part and install the software and configure it to the customer's liking.  The customer then pays me for my time.  That customer will then contact me in the future to handle upgrades, solve problems, etc.  I also get referred to other potential clients.  Both the customer and I get what we want.

Now, if someone chooses to pay me for my time, why is that your business?

Regarding your comments:

But it's not something hard at all. Why not be friendly on something that you can easily do and doesn't take as long at all.

I have quite a busy schedule - full time job, family, school, several open source projects.  One-on-one exclusive support takes me away from helping others and takes me away from my family.  Installing Coppermine differs from server to server; one job can be quick, another can take hours.  Until you've done as many installs as I have, you are in absolutely no position to say it "doesn't take as long at all."  I consider my time valuable, and for installations I expect to be compensated.

How so? the person is going to install it for them... If he can give instructions, why not give them now? Oh wait, he's on a $$$cash$$$$ journey.

Coppermine comes with detailed documentation that explains how to install our software.  It also covers how to configure our software.  Your first post on our forum is a prime example of people who don't read the documentation we provide.  So, if someone doesn't want to take the time to figure out how to install Coppermine, I am more than happy to do the job for them at an agreed upon price.

Is every person going to start sharing their knowledge for money? Why not share it to help people? instead of getting money...

97854 Posts in 19998 Topics by 20994 Members.  I think this forum is a great example of sharing knowledge.  Linux distributors charge fees to provide support for the free operating system, Linux.

So far, you have yet to contribute in any way, shape, or form to this project.  You have not provided any examples of your expertise with Coppermine - or with web programming for that matter.  Feel free to express your views, but hijacking a thread to say it's "a big rip off" is immature and disrespectful.

[Joachim Müller]

@Dave, Clive, Thu, Dennis: you all did your best to explain what coppermine and paid support is all about. Let this postings stay as they are, I think that everybody who comes to visit this thread will be able to make up their minds.

There are two possible reasons why Aven keeps on posting stupid replies:
1) he/she is really having a strange attitude that can't be cured no matter what we say
2) he/she knows perfectly well and just came here to troll

Either way, we shouldn't tolerate any further silly postings on this thread from Aven. I'm not going to ban the account to give him/her the opportunity to post "proper" question on other threads, however I will move all future replies from Aven in this thread to the crap bin instantly. If he/she misbehaves again, I'll ban the account though without further notice (and don't even consider starting a rant about "freedom of speech"!).

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[Abbas Ali]

I am a bit late in this thread, anyways........

Heres the deal...

I'm a poor college student who knows a lot about computers.

The very first line of typhooner's post says that he is poor.  This means he has learnt computers and php to earn money so that he can live. Everyone in this world has certain skills and they learn those skills so that they can earn money to live. So if someone is using their skill to earn then why the hell Aven has problems.

$25 is not computsory. Who told Aven that to install coppermine he will need to pay $25 compulsorily and without paying $25 he can't use coppermine.

You think people should share their knowledge free of cost. Well there are many people who does so but not all. If this is so then why don't someone asks Bill Gates to distribute Windows free of cost since he has already earned a lot from it and he should share his knowledge and code free of cost. Just think on this.........

[Tarique Sani]

@Aven - I am a rich Coppermine developer and my clients pay me $25 an hour for just consulting about it - so what say?

Hmmm... time this thread was locked. Wonder how I missed it, should come here more often

[Aven]

I am a bit late in this thread, anyways........

Heres the deal...

I'm a poor college student who knows a lot about computers.

The very first line of typhooner's post says that he is poor.  This means he has learnt computers and php to earn money so that he can live. Everyone in this world has certain skills and they learn those skills so that they can earn money to live. So if someone is using their skill to earn then why the hell Aven has problems.

$25 is not computsory. Who told Aven that to install coppermine he will need to pay $25 compulsorily and without paying $25 he can't use coppermine.

You think people should share their knowledge free of cost. Well there are many people who does so but not all. If this is so then why don't someone asks Bill Gates to distribute Windows free of cost since he has already earned a lot from it and he should share his knowledge and code free of cost. Just think on this.........

Microsoft is hard to make and code, duh. That's why he asks for money.

Once AGAIN, installing a copp template is EASY and doesn't take a lot of work.

If he wants to charge $25 for a simple installation, then he could do that. BUT, I doubt anyone would contribute. So far, no one has.

Tarique Sani: I thought you guys said that you put a lot of "free" time in this...

[Casper]

So you think the coding for coppermine was easy, and fast?  Just because we have made it easy for you to install and use?

Installing Photoshop is easy, but ask Adobe to give you a copy for free.

Maybe no-one has answered this particular thread to ask him to install, but how do you know he was not contacted by PM, or email. 

And the fact you could not see the toungue in Tariques cheek, shows how little you understand.  Tarique is a Doctor, owns his own company, but does all his work for Coppermine for nothing.  That does not mean he does work for his company clients for free.

Now, as Tarique suggested, locking this thread, until GauGau does as he said he would in his last post.

Anyone wishing to contact Typhooner in the meantime, to take up his offer, please send PM.

[Joachim Müller]

unlocked this thread, the Aven-avalanche appears to have passed . People who would like to discuss Typhooner's job offer are welcome to reply.

[fordaspiregv]