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Author Topic: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"  (Read 25886 times)

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Joachim Müller

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Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« on: March 18, 2009, 08:48:37 am »

Alons sent me this message by PM:
Hi,
I am Alons, the Lead Developer of Softaculous a new Instant Installer for cPanel:
http://www.softaculous.com/

We plan to launch Softaculous very soon and we have now started adding Softwares.
So what do we want from you :
1) Permission to add your software in the Softaculous Installer(i.e. Distribute it)
2) Help us to make the Installation/Upgradation Package

The advantages of Softaculous to the enduser would be that they can compare the various softwares before installing. Softaculous maintains USER RATINGS and makes them available in the Softaculous Panel. Softaculous also provides USER REVIEWS given by various users of these softwares. Softaculous also maintains DEMOs of the various softwares. So the enduser can actually get a feel of the software before installing the software.

From the Software Vendors point of view (i.e. you), it makes the installation very fast and simple.
We have a well defined API for Software Vendors to make an installation package.
The API uses XML, PHP and Javascript to make the installation simple and effective.
In our API a software is installed in just One Step. The API is explained in detailed form :
http://www.softaculous.com/docs.php

There is also a Sample Package to help understand the API :
http://www.softaculous.com/downloads.php

The API also provides for upgrading an old installation. For the upgradation the Software can perform whatever tasks it requires.

So we hope to hear from you regarding the Permissions to add your software. Things would speed up if you would make Installation Package. We will add your software to the Softaculous Demo so that you can review how your software is being installed with such great speed.

If you have any questions regarding the API, please feel free to ask me about that!
Please email us your consent to xxx@xxx.xxx

Regards,
Alons

I am posting this publicly along with my reply to give fellow dev team members the opportunity to have a say on this as well.

Personally, I'm not very fond of auto-installers due to the sad experiences we have made with fantastico. For details, please review http://documentation.coppermine-gallery.net/en/auto-installers.htm

Let me answer your questions in detail:
1) Permission to add your software in the Softaculous Installer(i.e. Distribute it)
No such explicit permission needed nor given: Coppermine is being released under the GNU GPL v3. As long as you comply to that license, you can do whatever you want without having to ask for our permission. However, we appreciate that you ask although you don't have to. As suggested, we're not fond of auto-installers, so we will not officially allow you to bundle coppermine with your app. On the other hand, we're not going to stop you (again: as long as you respect the GNU GPL v3 that Coppermine is being released with).

2) Help us to make the Installation/Upgradation Package
I'm sorry, I won't do that. If you want to include Coppermine with your script, you need to do the work. We won't gain anything except extra work if we do. You will have to tell us more anyway: what license is your app going to come with? How are you planning to solve the legal issues (you can't bundle FOSS with non-FOSS software and redistribute that). Your site currently lacks content on the about us page, as it is still under heavy construction, but it doesn't seem to me that Softaculous will be released under GNU GPL or a compatible license - to me, it looks like you're going to create a commercial piece of software. We're fine with commercial applications - after all, we all need to pay the rent - but I can't really see the benefit for us.

I'm looking forward to your reply and to the feedback of fellow devs.

Joachim

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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 11:37:58 am »

Thank you for your reply.
Just a little notes from softaculous point of view:
1) Unlike Other auto installers we have an API which allows a Software Vendor that is Coppermine in this case, to create its installation package (Bug Free as per the vendor) and then we add the software.
2) Also we have a Feature for the Software vendor to provide Upgrades using our API and even in the upgrade package the vendor can do all the necessary UPGRADEs and that too as per the vendor.
3) Our API is fairly simple! Software developers can make their packages themselves. This enables them to make installation and upgrade packages much faster than us and as per them. I think it may take not more than an Hour to make the Installation Package
4) We all know Autoinstallers do provide Ease in installing! And combined with our API, the Vendor and Softaculous both together make a Software available to the enduser much much Faster. It helps users who have limited knowledge of scripting or a softwares internal functioning!

As you said your license permits us to distribute your code if Complied, then I would like to thank you for the same.
But since you mentioned that the dev team will not make the package for Softaculous, our developers will have to make the same. In this situation also we will send you the Package for inspection.

Our Aim is to provide a System where we act as a Link between users and vendors and also let the users decide the best softwares!

Unlike other installers we dont restrict vendors to add their softwares to Softaculous(new or old). We have a rating, reviewing system (and soon demos) which will enable the enduser to decide which is the best software and also prevent MONOPOLY to limited softwares just because of their presence in an autoinstaller!

All our efforts are towards our GOALS!

Regards,
Alons
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Fabricio Ferrero

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 06:03:59 pm »

http://www.softaculous.com/-->> Dead.

We have to be sure that Softaculous it's not going to give Coppermine more trouble that already auto-installer had given. Remember that even we know that auto-installer is the problem when Coppermine crash, the end user in most of the cases doesn’t know and believe that Coppermine was the one in trouble.

From a Marketing point of view, please, be sure before proceed. We don't need more complaints about auto-installer because ruins Coppermine's image.



-Edited: Little typo --
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 06:10:42 pm by Fabricio Ferrero »
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Phill Luckhurst

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 07:46:07 pm »

My worry about any auto installer is that it teaches nothing to the end user. It is not that hard to learn from no web knowledge to being able to install and maintain the basics of software such as coppermine. In doing so you learn how to use an ftp app, how to set permissions, how to create folders, how to create a database and what one is. Using an installer is for the lazy and when those very people run into problems they then do not have the required skills to help themselves. They are often the same people who cannot be bothered to read the manual either.

As yo can tell, I am not a fan of auto installers.
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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 07:25:20 am »

I understand your concerns.
But as I mentioned that Softaculous enables the Software Makers to be in Control of whats going on.
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Joachim Müller

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 12:43:42 pm »

Alons sent another PM:
Sorry for the late reply
I am busy making packages of softwares who have refused to make the packages by themselves

Anyways, thanks for the permissions (by virtue of your license)

Also just a last note that its a win win situation if the Software vendor makes an installation package as per the API. The reason being that it will give you the power to make the changes as needed.
I know softaculous is new and today you find it no so convincing to add coppermine to Softaculous. But as and when we get popular I hope you will get interested for an Auto Installer does make it EASY TO THE ENDUSER! (Not to forget the ratings and review we provide)

I have replied to your topic!

Waiting for your reply

Regards,
Alons
Please stop PMing me or anyone else here; you're not allowed to do that! Instead, reply to this thread please if you have something to say.
I have not given you permission for anything. The permission to use Coppermine is granted in accordance to the license. This being said: if your product is going to be released under GNU GPL or a compatible license, you'll be allowed to bundle Coppermine with your product. However, if your product will not be released under GNU GPL, but a commercial license, you probably will not have permission to bundle coppermine with your app.
You are not allowed to tell anybody that you have been authorized to use Coppermine or bundle it. We haven't given such a permission and we won't (since we can't).
There's no "win/win" situation for coppermine when it get's bundled with another product: we don't earn a penny if coppermine get's used by more people. We'll have more people seeking support if coppermine get's more popular by being auto-installed. More support calls by people who aren't actually our intended audience: coppermine is aimed at people who have the skills to perform the install by themselves, as they will need that skill level as well to tweak coppermine to make the app work as they need it. People who needed to rely on an auto-installer to get the app installed usually lack the skills to maintain and administer the app, so in the end there's no benefit for us here, but only extra support work.

Joachim
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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 08:43:07 pm »

The GPL License does not restrict softaculous even if Softaculous is released under a commercial/proprietary license!
Softaculous is just a sort of distributor of your software.
We comply with the rules of making the source code available and passing on the GNU GPL rights to the users of your softwares.
We also do not modify any license of yours.
Softaculous will give a notice of your license to all users who install Coppermine using Softaculous

Regards,
Alons

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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2009, 02:25:24 pm »

If you guys would like to go through the installer package we made for Coppermine,
Please download it from the following link:
http://www.softaculous.com/givesoft.php?softid=27

If you do go through it and find any problems, let me know.
I will update things ASAP.

Also if you are interested in rating, reviewing your software:
http://www.softaculous.com/softwares/galleries/Coppermine

Regards,
Alons
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SaWey

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2009, 06:53:36 pm »

When you try to redistribute something, you should also try to make it available to all browsers (unable to download with Chrome or FF)
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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2009, 07:55:19 pm »

Well that Download link is the link through which each softaculous copy around the world downloads any software we have, including CopperMine.
Adding Download Headers(PHP headers) will create problems on some servers and result in broken downloads in the normal course of working of Softaculous on servers.
Hence our system just reads the files and outputs it at these pages.
As you are a member of the Dev Team, we can send you an email attachment if you are having problems to download it using that way.

Joachim Müller said to contact the Dev Team only via this thread and not by PM or Emails!

Softaculous usually does not publicly mention the download URLs!
But since we have no email contacts of CPG I gave the Download link.
You should be able to download it using a Download Manager like Free Download Manager.
OR
Just PM me your email address

Regards,
Alons
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Phill Luckhurst

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 09:50:02 pm »

Hmm, I tried to download it in FF.. No chance.

So I used IE and tried to run the script, all I got was a message saying hacking attempt.

I just couldn't be bothered to try anything else.

In your script you have the following.

Code: [Select]
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/', 0777);
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/albums/', 0777);
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/include/', 0777);
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/albums/userpics/', 0777);
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/albums/edit/', 0777);


Why are you setting / to 777? What happens on windows servers?

What is the actual point of all this when installing coppermine is so easy?
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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 05:37:04 am »

The API calls the __install() function

I have updated the files and removed
@chmod($__settings['softpath'].'/', 0777);

The remaining CHMOD is so that the users dont have trouble uploading as CPG requires that.
I checked the test_fs() function in your install.php

It required the CHMOD for the folders.

Regards,
Alons
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Joachim Müller

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 09:44:38 am »

In my opinion it's not our task to look into your installer or evaluate it. We're not fond of auto-installers, and the CHMOD issue brought up is just one more proof that we're right in considering auto-installers as "bad".

The remaining CHMOD is so that the users dont have trouble uploading as CPG requires that.
No, Coppermine does not require that. If you're convinced that Coppermine requires that then you're just wrong and you haven't been looking into the documentation we provide carefully enough.

Please let this discussion end now.
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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 12:45:23 pm »

I guess you guys just want to blame and still blame any auto installer!

Any ways your own install script checks that the "albums/" directory and its subdirectories are writable.
CHMOD is required on most servers otherwise new files cannot be written in those directories.
This is a normal procedure of CHMOD, otherwise the users would have to FTP and CHMOD those folders.

So there is nothing that Softaculous is bad if we CHMOD those folders in which files are to be written!

Just a last thought before we end this discussion:
If you had bad experiences with other auto installers its not our fault!
Also although Fantastico is our competitor, I personally think its ONE BIG factor in popularising CPG (though it might have caused you support issues)
Softaculous wants to be friends and respects you for the software you guys develop.
We are professional enough and if you still find any more issues with the installer let me know, we will try to fix it ASAP. (You wont have bad experiences with us, you have my word)

Regards,
Alons
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SaWey

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 06:15:43 pm »

I guess you guys just want to blame and still blame any auto installer!

Any ways your own install script checks that the "albums/" directory and its subdirectories are writable.
CHMOD is required on most servers otherwise new files cannot be written in those directories.
This is a normal procedure of CHMOD, otherwise the users would have to FTP and CHMOD those folders.

So there is nothing that Softaculous is bad if we CHMOD those folders in which files are to be written!
I think Joachim misunderstood that one.

So there is nothing that Softaculous is bad if we CHMOD those folders in which files are to be written!
Yes, there is:
You use '@chmod' so you won't be certain it has worked? How will you handle those issues?

If you had bad experiences with other auto installers its not our fault!
Also although Fantastico is our competitor, I personally think its ONE BIG factor in popularising CPG (though it might have caused you support issues)
Softaculous wants to be friends and respects you for the software you guys develop.
We are professional enough and if you still find any more issues with the installer let me know, we will try to fix it ASAP. (You wont have bad experiences with us, you have my word)
We know this is not your fault, but it is hard to help people who installed CPG with an auto installer, as the problem can be with that.
Also, we have a limited amount of supporters who we would like to stay here and don't want them to be frustrated with issues unknown in a self installed version.
It might be a good idea to first direct people to your site when they have problems and then redirect them to us when you know the issue is on our side (or something like that)?

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alons

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 11:30:48 am »

The @chmod is just my coding habit!
In cPanel CHMOD is allowed in the backend that is, there is no restriction to scripts that are in the cPanel frontend directories.
So you can be rest assured about that.

As regards errors during installation, we have used most of your installer script functions.
We tested it also and everything seems to be OK.

However if you see any error in the code then let me know, I will update it ASAP!

Regards,
Alons
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dannydesil

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 10:03:07 am »

I'm going to sound like a complete fool, but what is all this stuff? I have no idea! It looks like an impressive collection of things and I'd be glad to try it out, but I haven't heard of 99% of them. What's cPanel? Are all the things in softaculous installer stuff that you can use on a webpage? I've had a forum before, is it like that? Software to run on web servers? I'm very new to all this web design stuff, and the softaculous web page is greek to me. lol
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Phill Luckhurst

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Re: Auto-Installer "Softaculous"
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 10:18:55 am »

Try Google. ;)

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